Whether 'tis good for the inverter to suffer The charging and exporting of meager fortune, Or to hold SoC against a sea of diminishing returns And by self consuming end them. For the last few years, my strategy with Octopus has been simple. Charge fully overnight (and any smart charging slots), export all solar in the summer, and force discharge any excess in the evening. Now, we're entering new territory, with significantly reduced returns on arbitrage, I'm not sure that the additional wear and tear on inverter/batteries is worth the small (approx 3p/kWh after losses) return. Additionally, for the first time, it's looking like Flux may be viable for 4-6 months, whereas previously it had been extremely marginal for me, so not worth the risk. What are you doing now export rates are dropping?

I'm going for the 'minimise grid import' method and when i have to import, get it as cheap as possible. I'm still on Agile import and fixed variable export (soon to be 12p). Exporting excess solar is fine but dumping battery to grid isn't really cost effective for my system unless there is also a price plunge where I get paid to charge the batteries and get paid to export.

@"MrMessy"#p10287 Yes, I read the email from Octopus with a little dismay too. But it was always coming. For purely financial reasons, even at the old rate, it was fairly mediocre as a means of return.... but it did make sense. Going forward..... very much less so. However, for me, just for the record, my priority is not just personal financial gain. I genuinely want to put less impact on the grid, and now that I have a home battery, I like to contribute my little bit in reducing the Peak 16:30 - 19:00 demand on the gird so we burn less gas to meet the demand. I realise my personal contribution is tiny, but if there were a million home batteries like mine all contributing 5kW then that would be 5GW, which would just about remove the peak entirely. Also.... as you know all too well, GivEnergy and thier SoC shenanigans still requires an Empty to Full to Empty routine on a reasonably regular basis, otherwise the system has zero idea of what the SoC is has not gone away either. I see some folks on here charge discharge two or even three times a day.... I don't see the point in stressing the system like that, but a near once per day or five times a week equivalent as a compromise. By the time I get to the end of my warranty period in 2035, battery technology will have moved on so much, it might be time to swap them out anyways..... even if they are only giving me 60-70% of the performance they do today. By then, home batteries will be some super-special sodium variant at ~ £40 / kWh, and I can happily buy a system that will cost me under £3k and will last over a week in the summer and two days in the winter. And everyone can have something installed for under £500. Just my two penneth....

Also.... the alternative is to switch (as suggested in the email from Pete Miller at Octopus) to Aglie Outgoing for Export [Energy Stats UK >> North Western Agile Outgoing Price over the last 3 years or so...](https://dashboards.energy-stats.uk/d/5cZqqmf4z/user-dashboard?orgId=1&var-area_name=North_Western_England&from=1686824776938&to=1771749869898&theme=dark&viewPanel=18) While in 2021 and 2022, that would have been very lucrative indeed, the last three years it has been a more sensible price and so expect on average during the peak of ~ 14-17p / kWh [other regions will vary slightly] and so once again, is not going to make you a fortune.

In January and February I minimise the grid and use the cheapest Agile slots with no export except... When Agile slots are below 13p I'll import to export later based on Eon giving me 16.5p and losing 20% energy round trip. In the summer I charge overnight so that I can export all solar but keep enough for the peak slots between 4pm and 7pm. Between these periods I use one or other method depending on slot price and expected solar. If I was on the other tariffs this method still works until the difference between cheapest import slots and most beneficial export slots becomes less than 20% where I would revert to using all solar and minimising grid. Eon have not said what they will do with export rates but it renews for me every May and they could reduce them then.

@"KristianS"#p10290 we've had our system a little longer than you. At the time of installation, our thoughts were to minimise grid use and self consume as much solar as possible. Not unreasonable as we're off-grid for water, gas, phone, sometimes electricity, and besides, export with Octopus was 8p/kWh at the time (unless you fancied your chances on Agile). The move to 15p was quite a surprise, but one which we gratefully accepted, and have made use off. Like you say though, it was never sustainable and I'm only surprised they haven't dropped it further, like EON. Roll on V2G.

@"WindyMiller"#p10302 how do you have import with Octopus, but export with EON? I know EON have dropped export to 6p/kWh for smart tariffs. No idea how that would work for you though.

@"KristianS"#p10292 Mick's an encyclopaedia (do people even use those any more? Do people even know what they are? 😆) of useful information. I read pretty much everything he puts out. It helps that he's on IOG and has a Vaillant ashp.

@"MrMessy"#p10364 Yeah, he is! I must follow him more closely

@"MrMessy"#p10361 Eon were my installer so they set up the export SEG at 16.5p to renew each year in May. Shell were my provider which got transferred to Octopus. Then I went onto Agile Octopus with no requirement to transfer export SEG.

@"MrMessy"#p10360 Have you heard of [Axle Energy](https://www.axle.energy) ? They are offering a £1 per kWh for every time they need to assist the grid. They expect each user to get to about £10 per month. > Earn £1/kWh during grid events and at least £10/month guaranteed Feel free to use my [Referral Code](https://vpp.axle.energy/landing/grid?ref=R-KDZHLOXT) to sign up, and we will both earn £25. It is beyond simple to do and doesn't require you to stop using your existing tariffs. If you want some information outside of Axle - See Gary Does Solar video here>> [Gary Does Solar >> Axle Energy: Energy Trading](https://youtu.be/IvMor9aUfhE?si=icDYCco7Lt02ZMwj) for details. Gary has had a lot of sign-ups.

To force discharge, or not to force discharge, that is the question:

KristianS

MrMessy Do you have a price per kWh drop in April? Mine is dropping by 25% and so brings back into play arbitrage as a viable option again..... possibly...

J1m

KristianS I've been thinking of signing up to this using your referral, but see you have mentioned a drop in payment/kwh. How does it compare now to the 12p Outgoing Octopus payment?

KristianS

J1m Hi. Please do not get confused. Axle is still £1 / kWh payment. That hasn't changed. The original conversation was about the drop in Export rate from Octopus. The Axle part has not changed. I posted my last output on Saturday. I have another event planned for tomorrow. So now is a good time to sign up!

J1m

KristianS Thanks for clarifying that! I will have a go at signing up tomorrow. Just to double check - I think I read earlier in this thread that I'd just need to suspend any WW schedules that would clash with an axle event? Anything else I need to be aware of? Cheers!

KristianS

J1m That would be great. Hopefully, you will get assigned tomorrow's session, although they do like to give you 48 hours notice.
My only additional comment before your first session is to reset your system to any defaults. This would be to clear any registers to default values. In the GivEnergy app, this is done as shown in the picture
I had to do this after my session the first time because Axle were unable to reset some values. They do warn you of this in their end of session follow up email

J1m

KristianS Thanks for the advice! I've just joined up so hopefully I'm all set! I have reset the GE app to defaults as you suggested, although I didn’t have anything set in the app to my knowledge...
So presumably I get an email inviting me to join a session at some point, then ensure I have no WW schedules running at the same time as the Axle event?

KristianS

J1m Excellent! Then you are good to go.

Yes, you will get an email like the one I got yesterday morning....

like I say, they prefer 48 hours notice, but clearly they managed to secure a big enough part of Demand‑Side Response to make a meaningful difference to the grid. This is how their business model works and why they are able to pay so much to the end user.

then ensure I have no WW schedules running at the same time as the Axle event?

Absolutely!

KristianS

Oh, and another point..... You still get your Export tariff payment from Octopus for the same power..... that is the beauty of this!

J1m

KristianS That's great then! Thanks so much for your help with this! Hopefully you've got your well deserved £25!👍

KristianS

J1m You are most welcome.
And yes, I checked my account this morning. Thank you very much, Sir! And yours should be there too 😃

J1m

KristianS Yes I got my cash too thanks! I was obviously too late for today's session as I had no contact from Axle. How often are they by the way, or just random?

KristianS

updated

J1m Excellent.
They are 'random', so far.... but they do say they expect ~ 10 sessions a month.... ~~that will change as the seasons change and I guess as we get to the summer, it would be less....~~

I received an email today that stated the following

They are also discussing offering a way to absorb excess solar during the day.... using EVs. So lots of plans are afoot.

J1m

KristianS cheers! 👍

J1m

KristianS I earned £2.84 on the 1st April event. As that is in addition to my normal export payments from OE then it's certainly worthwhile!
Thanks again for the advice👍

KristianS

You are most welcome. I too had a good event at £5.47! Plus what Octopus give me for Export. It certainly more than covered my last car charge, so free miles for me this weekend!

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