GivEnergy Eco Off/On

MrMessy

Is there a reason WW switches Eco Mode off/on for a forced discharge?

Certainly in my case, I'd want Eco enabled all the time (except when I'm managing clipping) to cover the house load.

I have a couple of discharge schedules set via WW and as the changes are sent up to 5 mins before the schedule is due to start, I'm unnecessarily drawing from the grid during this period. Admittedly, only small amounts but nevertheless....

primary-hotel

admin

MrMessy I believe this is necessary on some of the Giv inverters.

We initially used their Export presets via the API before, which would also turn Eco off, and we followed that principle.

Dai

MrMessy I was experiencing similar issue to you and caught a couple of times importing at peak on a kettle boil in the short period whilst the eco is off around an export.
Believe now majority of GivEnergy inverters when timed export is set via their latest app will leave the inverter in Eco mode all the time including a timed export schedule slot so you are always back in eco mode when your scheduled timed export ends.

JayC

MrMessy When you get time please share how you successfully manage clipping.
thanks

MrMessy

Dai @admin yeah, I was previously using settings in the GE portal for forced discharge but WW offers better control by querying SoC before starting.
Also integrates better with smart charging slots.
I'd prefer if Eco wasn't switched off/on at all, it certainly isn't necessary for my gen2 hybrid but, if it's the only way of dealing with gen1 AC inverter which I think is where the issue lies, I can live with a 100W escaping every now and then.

WW solves my car charger issue without me having to faff about, when my only other realistic option would be Home Automation and I really can be bothered with that.

MrMessy

JayC as were normally at work during the day, I'm charging batteries at night (IOG) but leaving a little space (say 2kW). I then have "Pause Charge" set so that ALL solar, other than to cover the baseload, is exported.

If it looks like generation is going to go over our grid export limit of 5kW, I switch off the pause instruction and also switch off Eco. This means the batteries will only charge from solar over 5kW+baseload, in our case about 5.25kW
It requires some manual intervention and is a bit of a fudge, but simple enough.

If you're on the Giv FB group, there's a couple of people who have this nailed down better with Home Automation, although I'm guessing you don't use that, which is why you're here.

Typically works best in the shoulder months (April/May/Sept/Oct), when it's a bit breezy and cooler, like this...

By the time, we've got to June, full days of sun cause the panels to overheat and loose efficiency, so clipping isn't a problem...

JayC

MrMessy Thank you for such a detailed reply. I also did not know about the 'overheat and loose efficiency' so that also solves another "hmm" for me. I don't do FB so this group is particularly useful: especially as I only began by solar/battery journey recently.
For me it makes economic sense to sell as much of my solar as possible (.15) and buy at night (.07) so with your guidance I can now improve on that and stop accidentally using it. I also am getting the hang of 'half-night selling' thanks to the schedules here. Fine tuning so I currently buy/import around 27kwh a day and sell/export around 21.
Hopefully I have followed your advice correctly and this will work

MrMessy

JayC No problem.

Today, for me, is a perfect example of capturing any clipping. It's a bit cooler than yesterday with some breeze too and broken cloud, unlike that graph from 29th which was hot, no breeze and wall to wall sunshine.

As you can see, the solar is peaking at around 6kW, whereas 29th didn't get above 4.5kW. The blue spikes below the line is the clipping being mopped up into the battery, which would have otherwise been lost.

If it helps at all, here's my set-up:

7.6kWp East/West Array
5kW Gen2 Hybrid Inverter
2 x 9.5kWh batteries
Zappi EV charger
ASHP

I've set in WW to smart charge the batteries to 85% overnight, this leaves approx 2.5kWh spare capacity.
Pause Charge set for 05:30-19:30
Then 2 discharge schedules set in WW

Because they query the battery SoC, they only run if there's enough capacity.
Smart charging the EV via Octopus/WW overrides the discharge schedules.
Last month I imported 676kWh (300 to EV) at 7p and exported 1016kWh at 15p.😁

The only change I'll need to make is when we get to Autumn and the ASHP is on, I'll charge to 100% overnight, everything else is taken care of.

JayC

Ok that makes more sense now. Initially I had a low export limit and clipping was frequent. Now I can export at 6000 I rarely see it unless I make a mistake and export from my AIO whilst the sun is out! (I only have 6x480s on the south roof).
Your Dump XS 1 & 2 are an interesting way of doing it. I'll give that a try and see how they compares to my single 21:30 dump to 10% version. Your numbers are impressive but you don't seem to be taking advantage of half-night selling?

I look forward to the IOG you are trialing coming out of beta. That will make a real difference to cheap sub-loading of the battery to later sell.

MrMessy

JayC my 5kW hybrid inverter has a max charge/discharge rate of 3.6kW to/from the batteries, so it would take all of the IOG 6hrs to fully charge 19kWh from empty.
It doesn't make any sense for me to discharge during the night.

MrMessy

JayC separating the discharge in to 2 discharge cycles has multiple benefits for me.
1) the SoC queries means they only run if there's sufficient battery capacity, without risking running out and drawing from the grid unnecessarily.
2) I'm maximising the potential gain
3) gives the inverter a breather, it gets quite toasty running full chat for a couple of hours
4) doesn't throw a wobbly if I've got smart charging slots late evening
5) means I don't have to faff with anything when the ASHP is running from late autumn

Had a good, unexpected, example of how it works the other day, because of a minor EV charging issue in the morning (WW are working on this)...

As you can hopefully see, the batteries emptied in to the EV a bit in the morning, meaning there was less than anticipated come the evening, so only 1 of the discharge cycles ran, but I still had enough left to cover the rest of the house until 23:30.
If I'd had this as one 3 hour cycle, the batteries would have been empty by approx 21:30 and I'd have been using the grid instead, or not ran at all because it was below the min SoC at the start.

JayC

That EV example is similar for many I believe. I have offered this up to the Beta team:
My use case is this:
I am on IOG, use a granny charger (it's only a 10kw PHEV) on dedicated circuit. The Giv Inv just regards the car as another load in the house. Currently (if I were to leave it on IOG Smart on) if an IOG slot becomes live in the day the car would take from the battery not the grid. Whilst I do have a work around a WW automated solution would be far more beneficial.
I would like my battery to automatically pause discharging when an IOG slot becomes live.
I would like by battery to automatically charge when an IOG slot becomes live.
I would like my battery to resume to its previous state when the IOG slot charge slot ceases if the time is between 05:30 and 23:30 (in my case that previous state would likely be Eco plus charging paused).
If this scenario would be useful I am willing to help the beta progress.

On your point about heat: With a 13.5 AIO out in yard (north facing alcove), backed by a 12 year warranty with infinite cycles I relatively calm on that front. Only time will tell.
Couldn't get the house anywhere near a ASHP so have had a digital modulating boiler put in. Reconciled myself researching the amount of electricity made from gas 😳